Out of Control: Elizabeth Ely and the Corruption of Sanity

NOTE: I was not going to write a post about this issue because it deviates somewhat from the purpose of this site. On the other hand, it is a great example of the extreme emotions generated by the issue of HIV science and those who question it. The subject matter also compliments my previous post about the vacuum of negativity that permeates ReThinking AIDS.

There is a maelstrom of anger going on in the comment section of ReThinking AIDS facebook page lead by Elizabeth Ely. The anger and venom being spewed by the hysterical Ms. Ely should be a warning sign to those who actually care for her.  Ely is irrationally pissed off that a fellow dissident and his HIV+ fiancé consented to low-dose AZT treatment for the mother during child birth and for the child after being born.

John Strangis posted a video to youtube explaining his decision in a thoughtful and rational way. Instead of showing any support or modicum of respect, Ms. Ely chose to go on a several hour long rampage spewing anger at not only John and Jessica, but also at Jonathan Barnett (also a dissident), and Yours Truly. It seems that in Ms. Ely’s world I am “spying” on John and will alert the “authorities” if John does not consent to giving his newborn “poisonous treatments”.  Jonathan Barnett’s mysterious crime seems to be “consorting with the enemy”. (Read Jonathan’s excellent blog post about this same subject here.)

It is all so incredibly crazy, irrational and stupid that I find it hard to grasp. I will post some highlights from the first thread and let the readers make up their own minds.  The allegations made by Ms. Ely about me are so wild and absurd that they deserve no response. However,  I will go on the record to say that I have never “spied” on Strangis, his fiancé or any HIV dissident. I have never alerted any “authority” whatsoever with regard to anything having to do with HIV or how other people choose to live their lives. My sole reason for “liking” Ms. Ely’s posts was to let her know that I have read her comments and I am keeping record of her campaign of defamation and lies against me. Ms. Ely knows this because I have sent her private messages on facebook telling her as much. I cannot stop Ms. Ely from her tirade of defamation against me, but I am glad she has gone to such outlandish lengths. Now it is obvious to anyone with half a brain or rational thought that Ms. Ely is not being truthful, honest, rational or logical.

P.S. Extra points go to anyone who understood the significance of the title of this post. (HINT: Think Celia Farber and Harper’s Magazine)

This is how it started, with a dramatic yet vague pronouncement. It quickly devolved.

To my friends here: I am absolutely inconsolable. I cannot tell you what has happened, but please send your prayers. I am considering leaving the movement. xoBeth
  • Elizabeth Ely I have a lot of things to consider. I want never again to be even close to the reckless, careless ending of a young life. Ever. This is against my values and the very reasons I got involved in this. . . . I am determined not to shed A SINGLE TEAR for what you are about to hear is happening in the next few months. I will be just as cold and heartless as the e-mails and posts will tell you I am. And I will not discuss it.
  • Elizabeth Ely Most of all, I want to make VERY CLEAR that I am not involved in these doings. I have refused to be involved in it, and I will continue to refuse. Without guilt.
    Elizabeth Ely I will not be the person to break the news. I will only tell you how I feel, and ask for your prayers, for me. For me, Goddammit. Just pray for me. I’ve given what I can. . . . Just remember: The ONLY lesson I wish to teach here is to move into the light, from the darkness. Do not fight the darkness, teach the light.
    Elizabeth Ely Once I stop wrestling with all this mess, I will have time to write my book and truly bring light to the world. I regret that some have chosen to descend to Hades to fight the devil. They won’t win.
    • Elizabeth Ely I have a lot of things to consider. I want never again to be even close to the reckless, careless ending of a young life. Ever. This is against my values and the very reasons I got involved in this. . . . I am determined not to shed A SINGLE TEAR for what you are about to hear is happening in the next few months. I will be just as cold and heartless as the e-mails and posts will tell you I am. And I will not discuss it.
    • Elizabeth Ely Most of all, I want to make VERY CLEAR that I am not involved in these doings. I have refused to be involved in it, and I will continue to refuse. Without guilt.
      Elizabeth Ely I will not be the person to break the news. I will only tell you how I feel, and ask for your prayers, for me. For me, Goddammit. Just pray for me. I’ve given what I can. . . . Just remember: The ONLY lesson I wish to teach here is to move into the light, from the darkness. Do not fight the darkness, teach the light.
      Elizabeth Ely Once I stop wrestling with all this mess, I will have time to write my book and truly bring light to the world. I regret that some have chosen to descend to Hades to fight the devil. They won’t win.

    The next thread is a classic demonstration of conspiracy theory and fear mongering with aspects of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:

    Narcissistic Personality Disorder involves arrogant behavior, a lack of empathy for other people, and a need for admiration-all of which must be consistently evident at work and in relationships. People who are narcissistic are frequently described as cocky, self-centered, manipulative, and demanding. Narcissists may concentrate on unlikely personal outcomes (e.g., fame) and may be convinced that they deserve special treatment.

    I could highlight examples in the thread of conspiracy theory, fear mongering and NPD, but they are so obvious and plentiful there is really no need. After reading the thread several times my opinion of Ms. Ely has gone from bemusement to one of empathy and concern.

    I would be remiss if I did not mention that my spirits were surprisingly lifted to read several dissidents taking Ms. Ely to task and calling her out for her contradictions and overall bull. I am also pleasantly surprised RA has revoked Ms. Ely’s moderator status as well as her membership. It’s too bad they did not see this coming in the previous months with Ms. Ely’s increasingly erratic behavior and pattern of defamation.

    Elizabeth Ely via Jonathan Barnett

    Now it’s public. This is bullshit. I offered help, gave options, made him understand, hopefully, that this was not something to be messed with. And in the end, I get that he lied about far along his wife was in her pregnancy, kept messing with the wrong people, and was, of course, spied on the whole time. . . . I will NOT go down with this assault.

    The Birth of my Son – My Last Video Speaking about HIV Dissidence

    My son was recently born and I chose what I believed to be the best option for my son and our family. The fight between HIV “denialists” and the orthodox sid…

    YOUTUBE.COM

    John Pavel I can’t believe this!! All his talk about how AZT is horrible and now he is ok with his wife and kid being on it?! I would never skip birth control with a woman unless we had a definite diagnosis of infertility. Also I would have hired a home birth delivery by a doolah that I trust.

    Yvonne BenderHe DID NOT say he was ok! He said he will bring his kid home and heal him. He said he didnt want to start a fight he CANNOT win.

    Yvonne Bender She is VERY premature. 3-4 weeks. Home birth is out and any Doula who takes your money and attempts it under those circumstances is insane.

    John Pavel Yvonne-but why bring your kid to a hospital after we’ve all seen dozens of time this same thing happen? Medical records are kept on every one and I’m sure the hospital staff were just waiting to pop the pills in them

    Yvonne Bender I think we should see this for what it is. A FREAKING WONDERFUL BLESSING! No reason why this is not the ultimate gift with a woman you love just like it is for neg people. They got pregnant and kept their baby most normal thing in the world. Have you watched his videos? Do you know how many times he says FIANCEE? Its too cute.

    John Pavel So is there no alternative to a mainstream medical hospital?

    Yvonne Bender Please can poz people have an ordinary life? With the permission of the dissidents of course.

    Elizabeth Ely Sigh . . . everyone is a victim, aren’t they? Nobody could at least STOP posting offensive things to the other side on their Web outlets. It would just be too much, wouldn’t it? Too hard. Too much of a “difficult choice.”

    Yvonne Bender at 4 weeks premature there isnt except maybe a hospital in Mexico but I dont think he had time to drive her out of the crazy USA!

    Manny El Dino Elizabeth we are a lion cub fighting in a world of savage beasts! I would hate to be in a situation like his but we don’t want another Baby Rico situation here where the law gets involved and still gives the baby that poison under a monitor watch!!! Either way it’s a lose/lose situation! You can spill your knowledge and cause to these people but their medical school brains are just going to see you as a nut case. John is a smart man, if his son is in any medical danger he knows how heal the body. The Nigels little girl was given heavy doses of AZT and turned out well once going off of it after a few years. I know John isn’t going to sit back and watch his son be poisoned!

    Elizabeth Ely And we just got notified by 7 more “likes” that JTD is spying on us right now. . . . Can you guys get a clue as to what you are doing here, and who is looking at it?

    Yvonne Bender John is not the most highly independently resourced guy I know. He did the right thing. Baby home soon.

    Elizabeth Ely They’re taking the kid anyway. I know all the details of the Baby Rico situation. They did exactly the same thing, and it didn’t help. They’re already preparing the forms to take the child, with blanks to fill in for what they’re sure the couple is going to do.  It all rests on one’s “state of mind” when it goes to trial — which, in this case, it probably won’t even go that far. They use every single public and Web statement against you.

    Elizabeth Ely Yes, they did the right thing in submitting to the medicine. But nobody is fooled. They know the attitude is bad.

    Yvonne Bender ‘attitude’

    Elizabeth Ely They’re not going to let this kid go off the medicine in a couple of years. In Minnesota, they admitted it was indefinite, until Steve and Cheryl got a better attitude. And they’re not even the parents.

    Elizabeth Ely WAKE-UP CALL.

    Yvonne Bender We already know one should high-tail it to Mexico. But there just wasnt time with a pre mature birth.

    Elizabeth Ely John led me to believe they had just found out Jessica was pregnant. Not almost 7 months’ pregnant. That they had “time” to “figure this out.” Baloney. Now we all have to jump in and “help,” or we’re publicly outed as hard-hearted jerks. They had time, months ahead of now, and they didn’t even need to go to Mexico.

    Elizabeth Ely Some people just love drama.

    Yvonne Bender Yes thats right Ms Ely. Help him. Or you are a hard hearted jerk!

    Yvonne Bender John doesnt have alot of dosh. I think you should not judge. They probable were lining up a doula but premature birth fkd up that idea and then he did his best.

    Yvonne Bender Are you afraid of a little work?

    Yvonne Bender do some work! You cant be complaining coz we had a baby.

    Elizabeth Ely I’m not judging. I’m saying, Gosh almighty, what the heck are we going to do, when such people don’t give us half a chance to help at all? And then they go and consort with our enemies, just to get back at us? Good luck with that!

    Yvonne Bender I think John was gonna keep it quiet, not tell an online soul, use a doula and then show him to the world when he is 5! That is what I would do too.

    Elizabeth Ely Then all that should have been in place already. I urged, repeatedly, to take no chances. What I got was “we’ll see how it goes.”

    Elizabeth Ely Wake up call, people! Wake up call! Listen!

    Yvonne Bender consorting? You mean Jon Barnett? John S never did no such thing.

    Elizabeth Ely He let Barnett post his video on his Facebook page, as an object lesson in the importance of “common ground.” How naive! If we just invite these guys with blogs over for tea and potato chips, we’ll call off the hounds! . . . Y’all go join Barnett. I’m done with ya. Seriously: Go count your T-cells to death, and get all cozy with the other side, and make passive-aggressive attacks on the movement. Then complain that we’re all too “dogmatic” for your taste. Either way, it doesn’t matter. The state will come after your kids.

    Manny El Dino Elizabeth i understand what you mean and what youre saying but in front of these medical fools you will look like a lunatic! He was in a horrible situation and we should be praying for the best, not bashing him!

    Manny El Dino I’m going to remove this post because this is pure bash on a member on here

    Elizabeth Ely Go ahead. I never wanted to spread this news anyway. It compromises his position, as if he hasn’t done that already.

    Elizabeth Ely It’s why I’m contemplating LEAVING THIS MOVEMENT. I knew it would end like this. I’m being attacked, tried to do the right thing. Assholes.

    Manny El Dino you’re not being attacked youre the one attacking here

    Yvonne Bender Dont pull it Manny El Dino. we need to know how everyone feels

    Elizabeth Ely No, I’ve been attacked for months. Take me off the admins, and block me from this group. It’s a loser of a cause, this site.

    Yvonne Bender RA board is far from perfect but it should be. As for the people hurt directly by hiv/aids we know full well they can only do their best at any given moment to save themselves. RA board should do the same. Stop complaining coz we had a baby. Its not nice. Help him.

    Elizabeth Ely Please. Block me. I want OUT OF HERE — because if I stay, I have to listen to all this boo-hooing over what people should have done, the poor kid, the poor parents, all that — when we knew exactly what to do. Just keep a low profile. I urged it for months, and my advice was shunned. What do I need to do to get excommunicated from you assholes?

    Elizabeth Ely Don’t blame me for upping the temperature around here . . . I have always been the one telling people to calm down. Nobody listened. I’m done.

    Manny El Dino you’re the one name calling here and attacking here no one is attacking you

    Yvonne Bender Ms Ely the sooner you understand what a VICTIM actually is the less of your confusion we will have to endure. A victim is a person who is hurt by something. They remain a victim until that hurting stops. A victim is not an attitude problem. Or a plavc you occupy coz you prefer it. People need help to get out of being a victim coz if they are still there its because they cant get themselves out. So… help him already with all you have.

    Yvonne Bender You gonna leave the group coz we has a baby. bligh!

    Elizabeth Ely And I’m a victim of this. I’m about to stop being one. I did everything I could, put myself out for someone. And this is what I get. I told him honestly, this morning, what to expect. He should thank me.

    Elizabeth Ely I’m leaving right now . . . leaving the group. Grow up, keep your own Facebook page.

    Yvonne Bender You are not a victim of anything. Compared to Baby Dom and John? Help goes to the most in need. That is called justice. You are not the most in need in this moment Ms Ely. This tantrum is UNCOOL.

    Manny El Dino This happened to Tomas, John S, who else, a few have just jumped on this wagon and made their grand exit out of the group, I wondered who it would be next…..guess now I know.

    Yvonne Bender Pull yourself together woman!

    Yvonne Bender You gonna leave the moment you are needed. Heck of a friend you turned out to be.

    Yvonne Bender What you are saying is like the greatest victim of a plague is the person with resistance who has to nurse the ill and bury the dead! I dont think so!

    John Strangis Nice, thanks Beth. I will remember this.

    Yvonne Bender We have a BABY!!

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